(no subject)

[freyakitten]

*bounce* Wendy Rule is in town in 4 weeks and two days! I must find out what I have on that weekend. Here is the relevant extract from the website (reformatted, and semi-un-typo'd):

November 12 McLaren Vale ( SA) Concert
Solo concert in the beautiful "Singing Gallery" in McLaren Vale, close to Adelaide
Address and other details avail. ASAP
Also performing is local singer songwriter Billy February

November 13 Adelaide Concert
The Grace Emily Hotel, Adelaide
Solo concert.
With special guest Billy February
More Details ASAP 

November 14 ADELAIDE WITCHCRAFT WORKSHOP
Monday November 14th
3 hour Workshop on Magic, Nature and Witchcraft.
Suitable for beginners or advanced -a fresh approach to an old tradition.
The Governor Hindmarsh Hotel, Thebarton
$15
7.30 -10.30 pm

Anyone else planning on going?

Comments

yay! wendy's back

[reverancepavane.livejournal.com]

I've only ever missed one of Wendy's Adelaide gigs, and that was because the venue was wrongly publicised. Highly reccomended. Now all I need to do is find someone going to McLaren vale that I can get a lift with (with appropriate contributions of chocolates and petrol money). It doesn't sound like the Parallel Dream (ie Rachel and Craig) will be there though. <sigh> Although I keep wondering why I never get any of her emails .... actually I have my suspicions why not...

Re: yay! wendy's back

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

With appropriate contributions of more petrol money and *thinks...* some kind of preserves (the mushrooms are really good, and the pickled oranges taste like marmalade, only sugar-free), would there be other persons of the lifting kind?

I didn't get to see Wendy Rule last time she was in the area. *bounce* *bounce*

[maelorin]

never been too much on her commercial witchery.

paying for religion isn't right.

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

I have more difficulties with paying for religion the more I pay and the less I get out of it. I get a lot out of music, and music-related activities, thus concerts. And a certain amount of "the labourer is worthy of their hire" creeps into my brain-space at prices lower than $20-30

The bits of Wendy Rule that make me twitch are all to do with her particular brand of paganism. Just incompatibility of outlook, the same way Christians can make me twitch, when they're talking about it. But the music gets me, which is why I have bits of 'Continental Isolation' running through my head, even though
"Whether it's winter or summer in June,
We all draw our power from the same moon."
just doesn't hold true.

Well, if I get something out of it, it's worth it to me. Even if the biggest thing is the networking, if I get contact(s) out of it, it's still well worth $5 an hour.

Further thoughts

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

Profiting without giving value in return is kind of stealing. If I get value equivalent to the profit gained, then it is not.

Also, a lot of the wince-worthy paganism, for me, is measurable by the sheer amount of work it takes to keep up whatever it is the speaker is talking about. Thus, the fluffy-pagan daily ritual complete with robes, self-baked sacrificial cakes, and self-written poetry, causes me to wince. It's just too much like hard work. That much work should be reserved for special occasions.

Re: Further thoughts

[penguin2.livejournal.com]

Good voice, good presence, pompous bitch. She has a lot of company in the entertainment world :P

I've only seen her once, and my general impression was, "Give the woman a deprogrammaing course to take away the pretentious Fluffy Mayonnaise Paganism(TM) and I'd be a lot more approving of her!"

Re: Further thoughts

[maelorin]

not to mention that belief is not a public spectacle in the same way that a britney spears concert is a public spectacle.

i like my rituals to have meaning. to me. audiences are not required. (often not desired, either :)

i wince not only at the over-the-top-pagans™, but also the we're-recreating-a-dead-religion-the-way-we-want-it-to-have-been™ types. [mutters something about 'meaning' ...]

oh, and then there's those ethics things ...

[maelorin]

if the music works for you, tis all good there. [that si what art is about.]

i've had an ideological difference with many of the pay-a-pagans around town for many years now. one of the reasons i don't go to pagan alliance any more. they have no bullshit filters.

who are you hoping to connect with? (i be a curious type :)

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

Networking of any kind is a skill I need to practice. One of the reasons I have a journal is that I am really bad at keeping up lines of communication.

Thus, if I meet anyone new that I'm still communicating with in six months time, it's a jackpot.

I know what you mean with regards to the Pagan Alliance. I like to take or find someone who I can sit there laughing (quietly) with when people are more than usually credulous. Or they project their sets of rules onto me.

[reverancepavane.livejournal.com]

I'd have to say $15 isn't commercial witchery at all - it's more at the level of a hall hire charge for the venue than anything else. As opposed to, say, the recent $450 for a seminar by a "reely authentik vodoo praktishoner" [1], which is more typical of those that support themselves with commercial witchery. I suppose they do serve a purpose of seperating fools from their money. Either that all they could take part in alternate life-style Big Brother reality shows, like certain others... [1] This is reflective of my opinion of the speaker as presented by her stalwart champions. The reality may have been different, but I really doubt it.

[maelorin]

tis true. tis true. she has a decent income from music and her other activities.

but her books portray a pretty commerical form of witchery.

re [1] ... i concur.

[reverancepavane.livejournal.com]

And her plays are ... awful. And I don't mean that in the 16th century use of the term where St Georges' cathedral was described as "pompous, artifical, and awful" either. [full of pomp, a great artifact, and awe inspiring] (She's very Inanna-centered without having studied any of it. Roughly equivalent to an enlightened 70's radical feminist in outlook.) Apologies to anyone I just tarred with the same brush.

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

I would expect a hell of a lot for $450!

I'll relate this to some martial artists I know (and know of).

You have a seminar happening. An international Cool Dude is going to come take this weekend of Fun. If martial artist A is organising it, the price will be covering costs if a minimal number of people turn up, and well within the reach of a uni student who budgets. If martial artist B is organising it, the price will be out of the reach of anyone under $30,000 a year without other commitments who doesn't budget like mad. Martial artist B will also prevent the side events (training during the days before and after) being accessible. For me, it was the difference in price between a month of food, and two months of rent. The former is worth it - I can eat well on $10 a week if I have to, I don't eat much meat compared to most Australians - but the latter stuffs up my budget for the entire year. I didn't have a job at the time.

A's event had a much bigger turnout than B's because they could afford to come here, and go to the other seminars around the country that Cool Dude was teaching at. It's the difference between 100 people who all learn something, and 20 people, not all of whom had enough experience to learn what Cool Dude wanted to teach.

Re: Odds

[reverancepavane.livejournal.com]

Actually in this situation you set up an inner and outer course, with the inner course being far more intensive and therefore much more limited in number. Usually the outer course is set after the inner course, so that students of the inner course that proved themselves competent can assist the master with the outer course. Then again, most of my martial arts experience is based on traditional Japanese ryu, albiet modified with a more Chinese outlook in some ways, which is essential feudal in instruction techniques. And obligations. <grin>

I rekn

[rowlirowl.livejournal.com]

I rekn I know you. I rekn I've met you. I rekn you live with someone who's name starts with M, in a house occasionally haunted by JW, due to living relatives of M.

Am I right?

Re: I rekn

[maelorin]

yep. not that i'm trying to be anonymous or whatever.

i know i know you. that icon be a dead giveaway :)

[the number of people we know in common ... and your mutual friends are on my mutual friends list.]

Odds

[rowlirowl.livejournal.com]

Odds are good that I can be plied with goods and/or services in lieu of lifting. But I have a small car and can only fit so many, (myself, front seat passenger, and three small or two large in the back, or for an unlucky small person, two small and one large, in the back).

I'd love to go. I hope she takes some of her CDs with her for us to purhase. My last purchase was WOrld Between Worlds.

The things I like most about non-fluffy pagans is that you can't pick them. If you can pick a pagan, then I feel they are in the fluffy basket :)

Re: Odds

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

Like my stealth Ankh - the rabid Christians I know tell me it's a pretty cross, the atheists tell me it's a pretty pendant, the goths tell me it's a nice moonstone, and everyone else just says it's pretty ;)

Re: Odds

[maelorin]

stealth Ankh

*grin*

Re: Odds

[reverancepavane.livejournal.com]

"Shotgun!" (please) And I think fluffy-pagans are hard done by the pagan community. If a piece of work or idea means something to someone or has taught something to someone, I think it is very poor form to poo-poo it (as many "serious" pagans have a tendency to do). With paganism the paths we walk all tend to be very personal, and there is no right way. And I think it's more fun to respond to someone liking something fluffy with "have you tried reading this or doing this" rather than rubbishing their (often) youthful beliefs. The more varied beliefs, the healthier the pagan community is. My objection is to people who demand this is the way it must be done.

Re: Odds

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

For example, on a mailing list a while ago, an example was given and advice was asked for. The first response was "Remember the Rule of Three!" and the response to that was "Thanks, but voudun doesn't have that rule."

Maybe not voudun, but something equally not Wicca. And mentioned in the request for advice.

Re: Odds

[reverancepavane.livejournal.com]

Although my favourite smirking moment often comes when certain "high-degree Wiccans" say that the "Rule of Three" is advisory only and no longer applies to them. If you are going to create an ethical mileau, then you should at least attempt to stand by it rather than use philosphical arguments as to how it shouldn't apply to you any more (although it is, on evidence, a common failing of most religions). Personally I tend to gravitate toward the Pedro rites, which, for most New Age voudon practioners is not a good thing. But Carrefeur (the Watcher at the Crossroads) and I tend to work well together. But we are not nice people.

Re: Odds

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

I've also found that a lot of what is out there is fluffy. So most people's introductions to paganinity are fluffy. I know mine was. Somewhere, I have a whole bunch of recipes that I've never used, because I was either allergic to the results or didn't have the time or space or money. Oils for everything. Incenses for everything. I was living at home, and if I didn't have the window open, the unscented candle next to it, and the exhaust fan in the bathroom next to my room going, my family would react (allergies) to the smoke.

And a lot of that, for me, was what was available at my library or on the internet. I didn't have the money to spend on books at the time I was introduced to paganinity. I have a slightly larger budget now, but I still get most of my books second-hand, ebay, or gifted. I still have transportation difficulties.

In a separate issue, I often find that there is an assumption that transport is always available. You don't make that assumption. But often, when advised to go to this or that event to find out more, or to socialise with others, there is the assumption that I can get there myself. Or (when underage) that I could get my parents to drive me. The thought that (for example) Bridgewater is hard to get to on a weekend, when public transport doesn't go that far, and I know no-one who might be able to give me a lift, and that a taxi that far is more than $50, doesn't seem to occur. Even when I explain all that.

Re: Odds

[reverancepavane.livejournal.com]

Much of paganism needs to outgrow it's New Age roots, and it is in the process of doing so (although there is still considerable recidivism). I like it because it is a very post-modern religion. Although I am, by my own definitions, not a pagan. My original training was in formal theology and alchemy. It also derives from the Continent rather than England, and so I get to snigger uncontrollably at all the Golden Dawn influences on (Anglic) magical theories and witchcraftTM. But whichever way you go about doing stuff, what the ritual brings to you is never as important as what you bring to the ritual. <grin> I remember when the local passenger train used to run to Bridgewater regularly. Government has yet to realise the more efficient public transport is the more people use it and the more cost effective it becomes. And the more you cripple it the more expensive the remaining services become since nobody uses it any more. I also remember when I used to ride up into the hills for relaxation. The hills weren't too bad back then, but the drivers were just as bad as they are now. And I have a real phobia about car travel due to some bad history. My last lift to the Hills had me seriously thinking it would be easier on me walking back from Euchunga than travelling another metre in a metal box.

Re: Odds

[rowlirowl.livejournal.com]

Why do you want to shoot me? *confused look*

freyaw has explained what you meant, it's just that we thought it was funny I misunderstood for a while.